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Post by donk on Apr 29, 2016 10:07:13 GMT -5
“If I can’t show it, you can’t see me…what’s the point of doing anything?” Reflecting on the first time I put my face on a shiny rectangle (on purpose) had me seeing a lot of…well….reflecting. I thought the most useful, practical, empowering thing that was said the entire time was when Ben was pointing out to Sam that the thing that makes Shane “different” than most of the people we are used to talking to (or seeing) is that he is a REFLECTOR. Of course, Sam proceeded to sort of deny it. He didn’t see the reality that we had experienced, in his mind…and hell, maybe in his actual experience…Sam was a victim of intentional deception. He was mislead into actions he regretted, which he feels can only be rectified by Shane “coming clean”, and exposing the truth that will affirm his reality. I kept trying to tell him exactly what I’m trying to tell a lot of people…including the closest, Ness: if you insist on living in your “non-negotioable” reality, where everyone else is “getting it wrong”, where others’ misunderstandings of your truth (which sound to others like lies to yourself…or them) leads your emotions into guiding your decisions towards directions that damage your relationship….maybe you need to take step back and try looking at some other perspectives. Consider that yours may be wrong…or even the possibility that the “others’ “ view has validity. I didn’t know what I was getting into. CW Chanter skyped me a couple hours before he was engage in Sam on a rebuttal battle about the videos they had made. I had not seen the two previous Chanter videos that had all the context needed to understand the conflict…well all the context outside the “On Sam Hunter” CW did in response to the comment (I still may not have even read) that Sam made, and the video that Sam made in response to that (both of which didn’t have my full attention as I was at work). So I thought I was going into a friendly banter type situation, and didn’t even realize where the “beef” came from until after when I caught up with CW’s videos. Looking at it in retrospect, alcoholism is a huge trigger for Sam as it has had a HUGE impact on his life…which was quite a reflection of my real life, alcohol being the main conflict point in my most important relationship currently—with my babe FINALLY admitting her relationship with it is a giant problem. So the convo was definitely a reflection of what was going on in my real life…and seemed to affirm my suspicion. Alcohol is a handicap causing a deflection and diversion from real healing, the exposing of truth…sometimes on a silly, almost dismissable level (like almost “throw-away” comments triggering big issues) to the giant problems it causes like the tragedies in Sam’s life. I used to come her as a distraction, to vent, to work my shit out in an open way as to invite feedback. I still use these places for that, a lot. But more often, I can maintain my focus, which is trying to seek the rest of the lies I tell myself (which whether I’d like to or not projects outward). I was definitely resonating (after the talk, when I finally watched) with CW saying he had gotten out all the big lies….I like to think I did too, though I think it would be more accurate that we got the most disempowering ones out of the way…the work never ends, maybe the bits of big ones we still have left are the ones we learned when we were kids…that the “ghosts” and imaginary friends and such “aren’t real”, that we aren’t seeing a ship in the sky…I dunno, I digress. I’m not gonna speak to Sam’s experience, I can only relate my own to the one I shared with him. I got to see how hard it is for some to actually acknowledge—let alone break---the loops, the bad habits, the lies, the unhealed traumas…even when they have people they say they respect and believe actually pointing them out to you. It’s difficult to share the truth I found that approaching things from the perspective that I (you) may be wrong is empowering and helpful, rather than something to be defensive. It is so painful and frustrating watching someone try so hard and need so bad to affirm the reality they cling to, when it is so obvious from the outside how self-destructive it is…even if it is true, though more likely it is a lie, and should be easier to let go of. Anyway I’m rambling and projecting …and Sam especially hear this: it is not personal about you, it is me dumping my own issues as they are projected on the reality that triggered it. Take none of it as TRUTH about our conversation, everything I just wrote is me working my reality of it, mostly as a reflection (as above, so below) of the triggers that relate to my own personal problems with a person so different (and so similar) to you…which syncronistically enough I can also compare me and you (so similar in some ways, especially in some aspects of our journey in this realm…and so different in others) So I just wanted to thank you (and Ben) for letting me be a part of that experience….it was quite a ride, just what I needed, when I needed it. Remember that we all came from different places, and that (I believe) an empowering purpose of what we chose to do was to connect our disparate realities into one that we can share. I learned through doing this that you need to be able to let go of your own a bit in order to reconcile it with an other’s…and that sometimes what we try to hold on to is such a disempowering lie that it is best to just let it go. I hope this makes sense, I love you (everyone), thanks for letting me share, keep coming back
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Post by nobodyreally on Apr 29, 2016 10:44:40 GMT -5
Kaballah Centre International:
"When we try to hold onto everything, we end up dropping something. Instead, identify everything that no longer serves you and make a conscious decision to let it go."
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Post by Guest on Apr 29, 2016 11:20:25 GMT -5
Hello Donk, I really enjoyed watching the YouTube conversation with you, Sam and CW chanter. It was soooo funny man, I hope you three get together again. It was like reality tv
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Post by donk on May 3, 2016 9:53:09 GMT -5
I took this from Fred's thread, I didn't want to steal his thunder there, and my ramblings are probably more appropriate here anyway: Hello Fred you always came across as a thoroughly decent chap on PA and TOT, etc. I agree about the "project", except that most if not all of the alternative truth forums are part of a "project" not just PA. Even if the owner/creators of the forums are not part of or aware of the "project" The forums are infiltrated by paid trolls who direct and control threads, divide and conquer members, and in some cases attempt to take the forum down or overthrow the owner. Maybe, but I don’t think it would take many. The chat with Sam (and subsequent conversation with Shane) has me thinking we are our own worst enemies. There’s a dynamic that’s exploited in the community, where it seems that most of the more vocal or attention seeking have a really intense for need an adversary, not unlike our resident zombie ninja. Watching Sam use the ruiner story as a deflection from taking responsibility for his own issues, where he seems to need to transmit that “if Shane would just come clean, my relationships (and life) would be better”. I think we lose sight of reality very easily around here. Who are the actual vulnerable people we fear may be victimized? How can we let an individual’s intent manipulate us into furthering the agenda we imagine they are using against us? I can’t help but laugh at myself anymore for thinking that BR could be some sort of agent, or even recognizing that his creation is a cult. My strong feelings these days…my gut, intuition…higher self, discernment, whatever you want to call…my knowingness these days leads me to believe he’s nothing more than a Sam Hunter, a man locked into a reality he can’t let go of out of fear of tarnishing his carefully crafted image and putting at risk discovering the lies he tells himself. The real trolls at PA are the ones that don’t call him out (or themselves) on the responsibility he should be taking for his (their) position within the “truth” community. To my mind it should be all about seeking out the lies we tell ourselves, so as not to enable a CULTure of lies. As Shane insists his far-out story is his truth, we give it validation by nit-picking the “right/wrong” pieces of evidence to “prove” our own. We fuel the CULTure’s old, tired ways by showing how much more RIGHT we are, and give energy to it by showing how smart we are and “warning” the vulnerable not to fall for the lies, often mocking or showing our revulsions toward him. It’s one thing to not believe his story (“think he’s full of shit”) and share your belief that he weaved old stories together, as Fred does here: …but I had to point out the projection on to Radagast and Christine came off to me as a bit out of line. I understand that the intent is to try to help out people here, but I’d have to say I’d be a little insulted if you encapsulated my relationship with Shane in that way, I think it’s a little presumptuous to assume “they’re heads are in the sand”. Though it does bring up that fine line in enabling…so I applaud the effort in trying to curb that in what you (and I) see as prevailing problem in the (all) communities. But my whole point is that I think we need to take a different approach. I mean Rad and C and you and I are either going to believe any piece of information that Shane (or anybody else) chooses to transmit…or we are not. But it’s not for me to say I KNOW which (if any) of it anyone else actually does…unless I see an evident malicious motive that will cause harm. Sam contends that the “Son of Anu” stuff Shane was “pushing” is dangerous and can hurt vulnerable people, which seems to be a projection…IF what Shane told me is true (which Sam sort of recounted, IIRC), that their interactions about that happened BEFORE the ruiner blog was created…and was not only misinterpreted by Sam….Shane claims to have admitted to many mistakes about it and apologized repeatedly to him. Whether any of this is true or not…it is a situation that hits close to home. I live with a bunch of people who lie a lot, half my family was brought up in a HUGE lie…immersed in little lies to each other and themselves, while “my” half is just starting to my constant seeking out of lies to myself…we sure ain’t perfectly honest all the time either. But the thing is: one of the biggest problems I am constantly working through is not being allowed to make a mistake. It’s the “victim” not allowing the “I’m sorry, I was wrong”, instead insisting on staying stuck in the reality where I told them the wrong thing and hanging on to the damage it caused. I feel like I see that dynamic in play with Sam’s fixation on Shane’s lies….and the “as above, so below” (which I kind of just demonstrated with Fred’s vid) where the community can’t let go of a reality they experienced and allow for the individuals within it to change and grow. I personally had a hard time with approaching a relationship with Shane myself. I didn’t believe his story and was on the fence about whether I thought he believed it. But I never completely did, and did my best to not even read it...or at least definitely not read too much into it…certainly not “analyzing the effects of Neptune sized spheres on the solar system” as BR did to discredit Corey…I guess a more relevant example would be his “proving Shane wrong” because he could not produce coordinates of the giants (ignoring than none of the “whistleblowers” he gives “sterling integrity” have ever produced anything of “evidence value). Anyway, my point is…just because Rad and Christine (and I) don’t shit on his wildest stories publicly #1 doesn’t necessarily mean they (we) believe him (have our head in the sand), and #2 are naïve to think that having a relationship (or even friendship) with him is ok. Though having said that, maybe it makes this thought that I have unfair: it’s not the Shanes or even “Shaneolytes” that give the ruiner story (that upsets the “opposition” so much) SO MUCH POWER, what gives it all the energy it has is the attention that the “opposition” give it.
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Post by donk on May 3, 2016 9:53:45 GMT -5
Back to the guest quote that triggered this thought stream of mine, I imagine…(dare I say, noticed?)…there has been an evolution of the alt media celeb, most notably in my awareness through PA by BR…from Serpo to Camelot to Charles to Inelia to Simon to Corey to Shane, where it started out as interesting intel dump Bill “stumbled upon” and captivated an audience with (and later showed in Mirage Men what he SHOULD have learned from that or that maybe even he actually knew better??), then he (and Kerry) revolutionized the “alt media” by being the first to effectively utilize youtube, bringing a community that lived on conference and books and whatever to wider audience with Camelot, which he then presented his “illumanati insider” that people were working out the emotional attachments to that drama when I came around.
Inelia was the covergirl and no one to this day ever helped me understand how a large audience was wrapped up in the belief they were experiencing a 12th dimensional being who came directly from Source, saw no apologies or responsibility taken or explanations as she drifted away. I was on the ground floor, not a member of staff at PA but I was definitely all-in and welcoming Simon with open arms, as we all reveled in the ability to directly interact with this exciting new celeb that made it his home, enjoying protection from criticism and even a section of the faithful that could declare “SIMON CAN NOT LIE” and not be corrected, I mean after all, to limit him in that way is insulting…even if he was actually a person who WOULD NEVER LIE.
And as Corey emerged amidst the issues of the secret-to-the-forum marriage of the founder, the ruiner was propelled into the authority on discrediting the goodET**. Corey, who started as one of us, some douchey poster on an internet forum for weirdos, was shaped into an “insider” that was promoted, then actually sort of vetted by the leader AND the pack. As this next evolution of whistleblower gained attention, it was apparent that the audience was evolving as well. A large group actually questioned pieces of his story, with much less resistance from any “protection”. More discernment was shown from more directions, and a number of the community went to seemingly non-celeb dude in direct contact with CG for their information, rather than pick apart the silly reality so many were (are) giving energy to.
So to me, the ruiner was the next evolution, rather than a BR creating his celebrity, it was US…a couple individuals…friends behind the scenes….pushing him out in the right spots to capture our attention, with so many latching on to THAT story. Instead of finding the dynamics of how this dude that came out of nowhere became instantly forum famous, we made him that way by picking apart his story, expressing our disgust in his “obvious lies”, ignoring the hypocracy in missing how much the same it is as the reams of shit we do believe or talk about with an open mind from the people that “resonate with us”.
Anyways, sorry to ramble, just connecting some dots in my head. I am leaning toward believing what Shane told me of how he came to prominence, that despite whatever effort he put into preventing his celebrity…we were the ones continue to give it energy. Whether his original blog post was truly for an “intended audience” or not, I believe him when he tells me he didn’t try to start a cult/religion, from what I saw it was others that did that. I believe him when he says so many in the community tried using him to shit on Corey, whether it be their own hangups with whatever story or more often their need to create a conflict to continue the status quo we’ve seen around here that they seem to live.
I see him ruining some of the delusions that have been prevalent in the community, spurring a continued growth. Whether he intended it or not, he exposed a lot of the bullshit paradigm we have created here, which is just a reflection of the greater reality, where we get distracted by our personal attachment to details, allowing us to ignore, to distract ourselves from, the lies we tell our selves. At some point we each have to take a step back and honestly ask ourselves: why are we so attached to this idea, this person, this reality. What if I’m wrong about it? What is the real enemy that we are so afraid of? What purpose does a troll or a psyop serve…and how can either exist if we don’t give them the reaction they are looking for?
….anyways, I don’t even know if I’m making any sense any more, maybe I’m mystified by Shane’s black magick, by a psychic attack from from a psychic troll, confused by mind control from some psionic beam weapon…I dunno, all those things could be real, but I sure I ain’t able going to discern them from my own shit, my unhealed traumas and lies I tell myself…so I’m gonna keep working on those while I imagine everything I think I know could very well be wrong.
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Post by donk on May 3, 2016 10:09:19 GMT -5
Heh...I guess one of the things I really took away from the experience of Sam's sharing with me and Ben up to this point now where I'm thinking about my convo with Shane, is that just like I've developed a belief in "tulpas", in the sense that human emotion, especially unhealed traumas, can form into a consciousness of its own... a story, a reality, a lie we tell ourselves...works the same way, especially on a "community level".
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Post by donk on May 4, 2016 7:44:25 GMT -5
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Post by donk on Jun 22, 2016 10:49:44 GMT -5
I changed the title, because I'm sticking this one here:
I was going to post this on the comment section, but remembered paste doesn't always work on the youtube comment section here at work, so sticking it here first:
33 minutes in she's trying to describe the house...it was a McMansion on about a half acre or more in the exurbs fancy neighborhood which used to be farmland...the main "anamoly" other people would see is a shadow figure where they definitely made a "farmer" vibe, har and suspenders. He was pissed...and I also believe was charged up by our presence.
Maybe she gets into it but there was also a "regular" ghost family there she'd describe, a father and two kids, that were pretty much benign. There was some sort of "spiritual trap" hotspot next to our house where she'd hear children in distress, and more than once be sort of sleeping out toward, one time I had to physically pull her out (it was a bushy grove) and it was HUGE resistance.
My experience is she sees benign "dead people" pretty much anywhere they left an energy signature or were stuck, and the real issue is more "demonic". WHich is one of the huge issues that's a big reason for me pushing the idea of doing this. Listening to her say "it's just evil" when he askes if we named it (about 55 mins in) is killing me, as maybe that is what we thought at the time...but currently I recognize the "shadow dude" is a manifestation of the childhood trauma she's been clinging to her whole life, which was amplified by the bad energy (and possibly other, seperate independent local demons) of the place.
And me. I am some sort of battery, and magnet for crazy shit (and people). Our time in the house was just after the "honeymoon" phase peaked and the relationship got real. And "real" to her was the fear of losing it (I've come to suspect), as we got to know each better we had our problems as any relationship will go through...and the ramping of the paranormal definitely had an "as above, so below" aspect.
So it is really interesting to me hear her localize "the entity/monster" to that place. A big part of this exercize for me is to help her see it from a more honest perspective, as she has been showing me in real life recently...openly acknowledging it is "hers", has been ever-present as long as she can remember. She's learned and grown a lot since that period in her life, when I recognized our relationship was feeding/strengthening our life-long bad habit of codependency...we've both come a long way since then...
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Post by donk on Jun 22, 2016 12:18:28 GMT -5
HA!! The story she chose (to entertain the crowd at 1:30 when Ben is kissing wife goodnight) was the "bushy grove" I mentioned above...and of course is different than how I remember it.
She was putting her face in a little bit and did NOT disappear (though she apparently went to some other dimension) but WAS being physically pulled into it and I needed to use a lot of strength to pull her out and prevent her scratching herself all up while ficking up the bush.
SHE didn't disappear...our reality disappeared for her. And the difference she'll tell you is "the way she talks"...which as you can imagine drives me nuts. This is a huge reason I needed a record to go back to as a conversation starter.
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